Posts by Cold Steel

36

Noah a Preacher of Righteousness?

by Spoletta in

during the watchtower study today, i browsed genesis and looked for evidence of noah ever preaching to anyone.

from what i could glean from the scriptures, it was a foregone conclusion that noah's family would be it on the ark.

(unless they towed some rafts behind) my wife says that building the ark could be considered a witness of his faith to the wicked world, but that seems kind of lame to me.. so, should i just assume that god decided not to give anyone else a chance for redemption?

Cold Steel

Giordano » Doesn't god have knowledge of the future? Wouldn't he know that wickedness would resume immediately? And finally it was all right with Jehovah to drown the unborn? Really!!

The answer is yes, God does have a knowledge of the future. And though wickedness resumed on the earth, it was not the same manner of wickedness that existed before the flood. Two, you view death as the punishment meted out by God when it was merely the means of removing them from the earth. All people, all animals, when they die, don't cease to exist, but continue on as spirits.

Peter, writing of Jesus' death, writes that as his body lay in the tomb, his spirit went into the realm of the spirits and preached to these miscreants. "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, which sometime were disobedient when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." (1 Peter 3:18-20) A few verses later, he continues, "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Peter 4:6)

If one wishes to debate whether the flood took place or was just a myth, that's one thing. But a just God does not punish the innocent for the sins of the fathers. The infants, the animals and others were simply removed from the earth. They weren't denied resurrection, nor did they cease to exist. And I wonder how Christ could have preached the gospel to the dead if the dead were asleep in the grave?

23

2 questions about Warwick

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

i have two questions about warwick.

see the picture included.

1) at the other side of the lake you see other buildings.

Cold Steel

Buildings?

What makes you think there will be buildings?

Did Adam and Eve have buildings?

You're going to be resurrected. There won't be rain, you'll never get cold. You may not even need to sleep! All you'll need is to gather berries, pollen and honey. It'll be so exciting! Each night for trillions of years you'll look up at the stars and feel that same wonderful wonder and awe.

You'll love it. We can watch slides!

129

Hi forum

by A Believer in

i proably shouldnt be on here but i feel like saying this.

i have been for the last couple weeks been studying religion.

i've learned the only ones who today do what the bible says to is jw.

Cold Steel

A Believer » Heartsafire they may go door to door. But do they make it a global work and do it all over? And is it the truth?

You'll find that every religion has a theology, Believer, and a reason for believing. Speaking for Mormons, since I am one, we have doctrines, archeologists, professors of ancient scripture, historians, anthropologists, geologists and theologians. And we have an apologetics arm that defends our beliefs. Not everyone looks at the scriptures and sees them the same way, and to study other religions you have to be willing to be more objective in the way you see things. And you have to ask yourself if a just God would condemn all religions but yours to destruction, and by that I mean the people.

Man is imperfect and he errs. Too many religions condemn others while quietly (and some, not so quietly) excusing themselves from His wrath against others. As an outsider, I see nothing in your religion to distinguish it from any other manmade religion. Your leaders have never seen God, nor have they heard from him either directly or through heavenly emissaries. How would they know that Jesus accepted them in 1918, or that he came invisably in 1914? In Jesus' parable of the blind guides, neither the leaders nor the followers "see." How can a blind man therefore lead another blind man without both falling into the pit?

I've asked many Jehovah's Witnesses how their religion can act in God's name if they've never heard from God. So far, no one has been able to explain it. I respect you for coming here to defend your faith, but we all have differing beliefs and we're all subject to making errors in judgment. The GB has said it's neither inspired nor is it infallible in its doctrine and teachings. Ultimately I believe each person will be judged by what they sincerely believe in their hearts. The JWs do their people a disservice, I think, in keeping them on a short leash and forbidding them from reading "apostate" materials (any materials not in line with their thinking). I'm glad you're at least testing your faith and hope you stick around.

23

What's Expected in Field Service?

by Cold Steel in

do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?

and do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?

what do pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?

Cold Steel

Skepsis » The material used to preach is so stupid: tracts with questions and 3 possible answers we are supposed to ask to introduce the information, a video that says nothing you are supposed to show at the door... And finally the carts. Now pioneering consists of spebding almost half your hours if not more, standing up in the street waiting.

When it it occur to you it was stupid? When I took the Bible Study, I was astounded they would ask me questions, then not move on until I'd answered it the way they wanted. To read someone two small pages about what they think happens to man at death and expect him/her to accept it on the spot after an entire life of believing otherwise is ridiculous. Especially when the bulk of it is based on a single verse from one of the most insignificant books of the Bible.

Who writes those Bible Study books anyway? Don't you have to have a lot of freedom to pick up on what people are thinking or do you just read the book to them and ask them the questions?

Phaedra » The elders delayed my baptism until the next assembly several months because my hours weren't up high enough long enough.

How long did you stay active? And what made you rethink things?

15

how to not get in trouble when addressing your comcerns about the organization during a shepharding call

by nowwhat? in

so just finished telling your concerns about the pedophiles cover up, failed prophecies, revisionists history and lack of financial transparency.

so elders ask you the questions.

" so does this mean you don't want to to be a jw anymore?

Cold Steel

"Do you believe Jehovah is directing his organization today?"

How can He guide His organization if the Governing Body is neither inspired or infallible? If He guides the Society, He has to inspire them, and if it's God's inspiration, it cannot fail; therefore it's infallible. So how can Jehovah guide without inspiration or revelation?

36

Noah a Preacher of Righteousness?

by Spoletta in

during the watchtower study today, i browsed genesis and looked for evidence of noah ever preaching to anyone.

from what i could glean from the scriptures, it was a foregone conclusion that noah's family would be it on the ark.

(unless they towed some rafts behind) my wife says that building the ark could be considered a witness of his faith to the wicked world, but that seems kind of lame to me.. so, should i just assume that god decided not to give anyone else a chance for redemption?

Cold Steel

Spoletta » So, should I just assume that God decided not to give anyone else a chance for redemption? It seems kind of unfair, when you consider the amount of time it took to build the Ark. Shouldn't Noah be held somewhat responsible for not making more of an effort?

What makes you think Noah didn't make the effort? It took him forty years to build the Arc, but by the time he finished, the people were so wicked they were beyond redemption. The JWs see anyone who doesn't submit to its spiritual demands as being wicked and deserving of death. But the people in Noah's day were so degenerate that they were well beyond redemption.

Still, the Lord began preaching in the days of Enoch and continued until Noah. Lamech, Methuselah and others joined in the preaching. “Stand forth and proclaim to the sons of men all the words that I spoke to you in those days, peradventure they may turn from the their evil ways, and I will then repent of evil [I will bring upon them] and will not bring it. ... But the sons of men would not hearken, neither would they incline their ears to all their declarations." (Book of Jasher 5:2-24)

I just say this because many of the comments today tried to tie in the Door to Door ministry with Noah's example and I just couldn't see it.

The Lord will never destroy a people unless he first warns them through prophets. Again, God is just, and the evils of the people of Noah's time were not trivial. (Think Pizzagate evil, not I-don't-want-your-Watchtower evil.)

14

What Is "Counsel" and How Does It Work?

by Cold Steel in

yes, i know what "counsel" means, but it clearly has an esoteric meaning.

in the academy award winning bunker video series, the noble brother brown admits he didn't handle it well when elder ben (who was a junior elder...uh, yes, that's right) gave him counsel about a talk he'd given.

not enough use of scriptures.

Cold Steel

StuckInARut2 » There is NEVER any room for a "lesser" witness to reply to or kindly object to the "counsel."

Well, what happens if one not so kindly objects to counsel? I imagine with so many converts coming in, there might be some misunderstanding if one isn't used used to receiving it. Not many people would enjoy receiving unsolicited feedback on how they lead their lives, tech their lessons or give their talks. In fact, imagine if a lowly member were to counsel an elder. Would the elder be ticked off? Probably so. But then, it's a normal reaction for anyone.

It makes me wonder how newly baptized members are trained in these ways.

What are some of the most objectionable counsels you've received (And this is an open question to everyone.)

LongHairedGal » m not going to argue with you. If you want to say you're anointed, that's your business.

It most likely wouldn't do any good arguing with such people, which is why those in power don't contest it. This is one of the worst doctrines in the religion as it makes no sense. It's clear Jesus was resurrected with a physical body (at least that's what the New Testament teaches). Still, one misinterpreted doctrine leads to another, and another. I know it's not supposed to be a choice, but the only way a person would know is if God revealed it to them, and the Society says this is not possible as revelation no longer is possible.

However, I remember one elder who always used to stress that being anointed is not a "choice", but that the person is chosen. It's not something somebody can work towards.

As far as you wanting to "fly first class", you are not alone because many in the religion want to. This is why I'm GLAD I hardly put anything in those contribution boxes. They could go fly a kite, especially since they criticized people with full time jobs or careers.

I feel all religions are like this with the few at the top wanting an easy life with suckers supporting them.

I'd never get involved with any religion ever again.

16

Jesus not perfect and here's why.

by Crazyguy in

the bible is a inspired book of god and like and elder told me when i was young , there's no contradictions in the bible and all the prophecies have come true except the two or three that are supposed to come true in the future.

so with that said the messiah jesus christ himself must not be perfect and here's why.

in mark chapter 2 jesus is telling his followers that it's ok to pick wheat on the sabbath and mentions the story about david eating bread that was in the holy place ment only for the priests to use.

Cold Steel

The Lord said that the Sabbath was made for man, not vice versa, and I think the same is true of the Law. The animal sacrifice represented the sacrifice of the Savior for the remission of sins, but the Law had many great provisions in it for the time. It was compassionate, moral, and stressed honor, hospitality and integrity in a day when there wasn't much of it.

The emblems of the Sacrament, the bread and wine, took the place of animal sacrifice, and despite what the Seventh Day Adventists believe -- namely, that all Sunday worshippers would be judged of God as part of the Antichrist. (In most of these religions there are threats. The JWs will be judged because they worship on Sunday and the Seventh Day Adventists are going to be judged because they aren't Jehovah's Witnesses.)

God gives people things He intends to be for his benefit, and they use it to damn or condemn people who don't agree with them.

23

What's Expected in Field Service?

by Cold Steel in

do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?

and do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?

what do pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?

Cold Steel

Blondie » Just reporting not supporting. I would check www.jw.org and do a search from time to before querying JWN.

Yeah, I know...and your reporting is, as always, top notch. But jw.org always raises more questions than it answers...and it's frustrating. For example:

Since Jehovah’s spirit anointed him for the work, Jesus was clearly ordained by Jehovah God. When did this happen? Jehovah’s spirit actually came upon Jesus when he was baptized. (Luke 3:21, 22) Therefore, it was at his baptism that he was ordained.

This is a wacked out explanation by the WTBTS and whatever they attempt to explain turns into a series of non-seqiturs. How can they say Jesus was clearly ordained when Jehovah's spirit "anointed him for the work? How is that clear? When the Spirit of God came upon Saul at the school of the prophets (when he was pursuing David), was he ordained? Yet there's no one there to ask at jw.org. I guess we're just supposed to accept it. When Jesus told the Twelve, "...I have ordained you," he wouldn't have needed to if they had been baptized. There are also those other offices: bishops, seventy, apostles, deacons, priests, elders and so forth. If they each required ordination, then how would those clearly happen? There are no scriptures that answer this question.

The articles purport to answer these questions, but they really don't.

I'm afraid they wouldn't want me as a member, as these answers don't even make sense. When Jeremiah was told by the Lord: "Before thou wast born I knew thee, and before thou camest forth from the womb I called thee and ordained thee a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5) Thus one can say he was clearly called and ordained before he was born.

Anyway, I do appreciate your materials. You apparently know where to look.

At his baptism Timothy became a minister. From then on, his life, his strength, and everything he had belonged to God.

It doesn't say anywhere that Timothy became a minister when he was baptized. It's all pap! They just spout these things off!

23

What's Expected in Field Service?

by Cold Steel in

do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?

and do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?

what do pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?

Cold Steel

But where in the Bible does it state that all baptized members are ordained ministers? It's a concept I just don't find. Also, what of bishops, deacons, priests and seventy mentioned in the New Testament? These all appear to be offices within the church, yet we don't know a lot about them. Do these offices need ordination and, if so, who gets to ordain whom?

Elders seem to be an internal police force, as they evoke fear in some members.